On Voting Confidence, Immigration & the Latinx Community with Demi Rodriguez (part two)
Recorded in Los Angeles, Kindman and Company Presents.
Dani (00:15):
My name is Dani, and you are listening to add of session with Kindman and Co. A feelings forward podcast where we leave our therapist selves at the door and have messy real conversations about being human. Today I'm reunited with Demi Rodriguez and we are picking up where we left off. So if you haven't already, please tune into our last episode where we touch on personal stories and family dynamics related to voting confidence and immigration. Today we are diving into post-election feelings and how to talk about politics during the holiday season. Welcome back, Demi. I did feel a lot more excited for our last podcast together, but here we are. So something really awkward happened. So right here, Trump has been elected. Oh, well, backing up. We voted.
Demi (01:09):
We Did.
Dani (01:10):
Yay!
Demi (01:10):
We all voted. Yeah. My dad voted for I think the first time in years. I know for sure. But yeah, he voted, he went was the same day register, so I don't know that he's ever voted with that, but he voted this year, so that was cool. That's a win.
Dani (01:30):
A win is a win. That's a major win. And in the family group chat, I saw that you sent a picture of him, which was so cute. He did. He took a selfie. Yeah, because last time we were talking about how your dad is afraid to vote or he was really uncomfortable at the polls.
Demi (01:50):
Yeah. He feels like he doesn't know enough and he would always say his vote never made a difference. So he told my older sister, even if it doesn't make a difference, I have to try. And we all just crying. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, dad, it was a big day for the family and I mean, yeah, he did it. So out of everything we got something.
Dani (02:19):
It was a really sweet thing because I think one of your sisters posted too. It was like you with your voting sticker, your dad, your mom, sisters that can vote.
Demi (02:32):
Yeah
Dani (02:32):
The whole family voted.
Demi (02:33):
The whole family voted. My mom's husband voted. My boyfriend voted. His mom voted, which I didn't know. She wasn't an active voter either.
Dani (02:44):
Great.
Demi (02:44):
So we got everyone out. We got them out there, which was a first.
Dani (02:50):
That's awesome. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same on my end. Did I vote Yes. Was I happy about that? I was waiting in that line. I wanted my sticker. I wanted my votes count. So I did that and I did feel a little bit sad because seeing the posts that you guys are sharing, but then I was just like, it is just me voting. I don't know. I know for sure two people in my family out of the other three did not vote. One potentially did.
Demi (03:27):
Okay.
Dani (03:28):
So not sure. But the person I was able to connect with the most on voting was my grandma, which was really sweet.
Demi (03:37):
Oh, I love that.
Dani (03:39):
Yeah. I was kind of surprised by that. I know that she votes every election and I don't know, we were just talking about our political views in a way that felt really sweet and nice, and I was really happy about that. So as the just voting process was going on, we were talking about just who we were going to vote for, and then afterwards we kind of debriefed and we're just feeling happy that we voted. So I don't know, it was just a very sweet, relaxed conversation that I was kind of surprised at.
Demi (04:15):
And it's nice to see how you guys bonded with the generational gap
Dani (04:21):
Completely. Yeah.
Demi (04:21):
Yeah, because I mean, usually that's the generation you expect not to connect with at all or to completely disagree with. So I feel like how heartwarming to be like, no, we're in this together and to have that.
Dani (04:32):
For sure. For sure. And it's interesting because I would talk about voting and politics the most with my grandpa. Unfortunately, he died. And so I think maybe I was surprised because he was the person out of them too, when I would visit him and I would talk a lot about it and my grandma would chime in here and there, but I missed talking to him about this election and I was like, oh, I still have a piece of that. And that felt really good.
Demi (05:01):
Yeah, that's really nice.
Dani (05:03):
But the big question as we go into, well, we're already in holiday season, we're kind of in the middle of it, depending on when that starts for you. But the big question is do you talk about politics with your family during the holidays? We've already passed Thanksgiving.
Demi (05:27):
Yeah.
Dani (05:28):
What was your approach on that?
Demi (05:31):
So my approach to Thanksgiving, so for me it's really interesting because for the most part, my intermediate, I guess it would be family does agree on most things. I think there are a few things that we have disagreements on or we don't fully understand. And where I do have a lot of disagreements is my partner's family. And so what I had to do for myself this year was just hold onto a bit of that distance, especially emotionally hold onto that distance. I just felt like I wasn't ready. The election felt way too fresh of a wound for us to then start debating it.
Demi (06:19):
And I wasn't really willing to just dive headfirst into it. I wanted to kind of tippy toe back into it because it's coming. The holidays are not slowing down by any means.
Dani (06:35):
No.
Demi (06:36):
Yeah. So what about you?
Dani (06:40):
So my approach, I was with my partner's family, not with my immediate family. And the interesting thing is that politics really didn't come up. I mostly watched the dog show, which I found very interesting, important in these days. It was really light. I was like, oh, cute dog. Wow. Looks like they're really well taken care of. They're so cute. They're just being fed snacks, like snack after snack after snack. So that was really great. I don't know, I feel like this is a version of politics, but maybe it's just a passion of mine to talk about grief and name it. Maybe it's just uncomfortable topics, maybe not so much politics. I don't know. I'm processing in real time right now, but I did feel some divide when I gave a toast.
Demi (07:34):
Oh, interesting.
Dani (07:36):
I gave a toast and I said something about gratitude for the moment and for everybody that's here. And then I did say the word died and really feeling into people that have died.
Dani (07:51):
And I think that people have feelings about the words death, dying dead. Easy for me to say. I felt the tension and I was like, okay. And then when I finished the toast, somebody did say, wow, that got dark.
Demi (08:19):
I mean, if that doesn't sum up the taboos, I don't even know if taboos is the word, how taboo it is to speak about death.
Dani (08:31):
Yeah. I don't know what to, I was like, I don't know what to tell you. This is my first thing to be, think about my grandpa. I would just say dead and that's going to be okay. It is absolutely okay. And I was like, maybe I shouldn't give toast anymore. I don't know about you guys, but that made me feel real light and free.
(08:50)
Exactly. Exactly. I was like, I named him. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. So that was, I don't know, I felt that sometimes comes up when talking about politics, but it was just interesting that I was spot lit giving this toast because nobody else wanted to do it. And I was like, fine, I will.
Demi (09:11):
I've heard your toasts before. Your toasts are great.
Dani (09:13):
Thank you.
Demi (09:14):
They will bring you to tears and laughter
Dani (09:18):
And maybe make you cringe a little depending on the day. But I got to tell you, that's the closest we got to talking about politics. And it was a pretty chill Thanksgiving, which I think there's so much room to talk about politics given what the holiday is. Yeah. There's just so much to say about it.
Demi (09:42):
Yeah. I'm surprised even within my household that it didn't come up more at home where it did come up, especially with the hot topic, I feel like talking points, the price of groceries.
Demi (09:59):
Thanksgiving is a huge grocery, the meals are huge. And I was surprised we didn't think about that or we didn't even make that connection. I'm kind of processing this too in real time where we did talk about it astronomically was work. Interesting. Which funny, I do work in hr, so typically where politics is the thing we say, do not talk about where it is pretty, that is an HR embedded rule. It was talked about and groceries was where it came up. Interesting. And that's where I was really shocked. I was like, I didn't take the time to put that together, but it was already starting. And the divisiveness or kind of the fear also of the fear of what's to come and the unknown came up a lot and I was pretty shocked. We normally do a Thanksgiving potluck. We didn't it this year.
Dani (11:03):
Interesting.
Demi (11:04):
And I think it just was a combination of all feeling the same way that it was just maybe not the right time for us to all come together.
Dani (11:12):
You know what though? I do feel like money is a place that I see people. When you're at the very just tip of it, people agree, wow, that sure is expensive. And then other people are like, yep. And technically yes, politics for sure, but I think talking about indigenous people
Dani (11:34):
And how they were murdered and exploited, I feel like there's this interesting thing where people are like, oh no, I'm getting together with my family, but not because I actually celebrate this holiday and I have tension inside myself about that because I'm like, oh no, I'm not celebrating the whole pilgrim native thing. Colonialism, yeah. Yeah. That I'm just eating on this day. But I do have tension with myself about what do I really want to do there?
Demi (12:11):
The holiday of Thanksgiving as a whole is ass. Yeah, it's inherently political. Totally. And I think as a society we've kind of, it's easier to just forget about it. It's easier to just not talk about it. I have that same internal battle every year. It's the same internal battle I have 4th of July. No, it's the same thing. And they're both historical political holidays.
Dani (12:44):
You're like, I do like a hot dog. I'd eat a hot dog any day. but then you're like, it just so happens on this day.
Demi (12:47):
Because you get the day off of work anyway, so you're forced to sit in it. It's such an interesting time of year because the election, I mean we spoke on it very briefly before we started. The election is right, it's like Halloween.
Dani (13:12):
Oh it just sets you up for family drama
(13:12)
It is right in the middle of everything where you have to decide, am I going to go see my family? Am I going to go see this group of friends? What am I going to do? Because surprise, we just had a gut wrenching election and now you have to spend time and sit with your family.
Dani (13:32):
Exactly. And even if we go back to Halloween, I saw the most on the election years. I see the most presidential costumes. I saw so many Donald Trump's. You did? Yeah. I even saw a baby as Donald Trump, and I was like, and there was baby was in the stroller, and then the parents were pushing the baby and they were dressed as secret service people and they had a sign about cats and dogs. Oh no, not, it was interesting to watch, so didn't love that. But yeah, it really just election just sets you up to see these people over and over and over again. But we looked up some Reddit things and there are some struggling people out there. I must say. I love Reddit and I do feel sad for some of these folks. So basically the question posed to the Reddit world is anyone else's family only talk about politics and then they go on about during gatherings and holidays and whatnot. But the responses are interesting here. Somebody responds. Yeah, my dad does this. I found myself visiting less and less. I haven't seen my dad in over a year, and he only lives four hours away. Only it's talking to some guy at a bar that I don't particularly like. Yeah. Thoughts on that?
Demi (15:11):
I just feel like it was worded so perfectly because as somebody who used to be a waitress, I know that feeling all too well, having to be, because I was a waitress the first election year that Trump got elected,
(15:32)
And so that just sums it up. I had customers and people who would come to the restaurant who just instantly wanted to tell me about their political beliefs, why? And I was like, order your omelet and just zip it, please. I'm just trying to pay for college. It was so wild to see how quickly people were willing to just divulge such, I thought personal information and why their family history has caused them to believe the way they believe. And I was like, I, you're so scrambled or poached. It was so wild. So I just feel like it sums it up perfectly because when you're put in these situations where you're forced to see people and forced to talk about things that you don't like, To an extent, it's so emotionally taxing. And I think we don't realize how much it is until it's done. And then you leave and you're like, I'm really tired,
Dani (16:44):
Yes, and you're just like, you're on your feet doing your little waitress things, right. You're just trying to work. You're not trying to add in some emotional labor here, but people would try to talk to you about anything.
Demi (16:57):
Oh yeah. We would have people try and talk to me about stuff, try and talk to their neighboring tables.
(17:03)
Oh my gosh. The amount of times I had to be like, I'm so sorry. You have to keep to yourself. This family does not want to engage with you. Seriously. Yeah. We were not just waitresses. It was so crazy. You became a family therapist. Yeah, I had tables get physical with each other. I had to go and it was the funniest thing ever. I worked with my best friend. I had two tables. One was a family and the other was two friends all talking about politics. Then they got into each other's face and the tipping point was that the friends talking were cursing a lot. So the lady said, you can't curse in front of my children and I don't need them hearing about your political thoughts, anyways, stood up and they got in each other's face. One waitress ran to the table to separate the women. I ran to the manager's office and I was like, I don't get paid enough for this. You need to deal with this! Oh my gosh. So it's like that feeling of talking to a guy at a bar that you don't like. It's, especially as women we've experienced that you are just looking for your out at any moment
Dani (18:14):
Somebody saved me.
Demi (18:15):
Yeah. Yeah. Just trying to see. And then when it's family, what's your out?
Dani (18:21):
Well, I think that is the big question that maybe will come to an answer to at some point in this, but I don't really know. I don't really know. But the internet does seem divided. I've seen a lot of TikTok, Instagram stuff of there is a team. It goes back to you're either on one side or the other team, abandoned family or team don't talk about politics and still hang out with each other. I don't know. I don't know. I think those are opposite sides of the spectrum. I do think that there's some gray, but it really depends on who is the person on the other side that decides it. Because I'm looking at this other response. She's kind of talking about her dad, and then she says, he doesn't even ask about my own life, my husband, my son. It's all about politics and the crap he watches on TV all day. And I think if that person is on the other side from this, obviously from these three paragraphs, it seems clear to me that her dad on the other side doesn't really care about her wellbeing if she doesn't even get to talk about her day-to-day life.
(19:38)
So in that situation, I'm like, I don't know that that's the best person to sit down and have a conversation with.
Demi (19:47):
Yeah, I highlighted the same paragraph actually because it just spoke to how sideways it can go if you have somebody. Because when talking about politics, I think it's gotten to the point where it's not even about trying to get someone else to understand you if you just don't want to talk about it. If you know that you're not going to agree with somebody, but you're choosing to go see that family member. So you think any person would, I'm just not going to talk about politics. We're not going to bring it up, but what do you do? Again, it comes back to what do you do when somebody refuses to talk about anything else? So I think it's really interesting to see how a generation of people are unwilling to, it's funny, the generation that told us growing up don't talk about politics and religion. Oh, geez, anywhere. But now they only talk about religion and politics.
Dani (20:47):
They love it.
Demi (20:48):
So it's like, what do you do? How do you marry the ideas of wanting to spend time with your family members, wanting to have them know what's going on in your life, catch up, hang out, and still listen to everything that they're saying.
Dani (21:05):
Yeah, I mean her approach to shutting her dad down is interesting. She's going for the shutdown method. She says, I don't know dad. I'm too busy, too busy working and being a mom, so I haven't heard of X, Y, Z topic I to shut somebody down. I do like that, and I wish that there was a piece of I'm too busy. I haven't heard of that topic. I hope she has heard of the topic and she's just using it as a get out or another shut down quote of people just want to live their life, be safe and happy, dad. And that also shuts him down. I'm like, yeah, she's trying to get out.
Demi (21:51):
Yeah, she's trying to get out.
Dani (21:52):
Again, going back to that guy at the bar, it is just like, what can I say? I have a boyfriend. And then they stop they stop talking to you? maybe?
Demi (22:01):
Maybe. And that's not even a guarantee. So I think the same thing with the shutdown method is it's always a maybe, and I don't know, that's the gamble I think you take when the holidays are around in general
Dani (22:22):
To shut down or not to shut down. I know it's like, do I shut them down? Do I myself shut down? What do I even do? Another person, they kind of said a whole thing, but one of the things I found most interesting, it says, it doesn't matter how tactful I am either. To me, that just goes to show it doesn't really, it's less about what you are saying and more about how that person is reacting. You only have control over you, baby. That's it. However, you can be as tactful as possible. You can say all the right things. You can come with the, here are the facts, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. But it doesn't really matter if that person isn't going to receive it. And I think it's on us to kind of sit there and sort of gauge, does this person actually seem like somebody that I can kind of banter with or talk to without them getting majorly defensive? People are talking about shouting matches. I'm not trying to do that with somebody.
Demi (23:26):
Something that my therapist and I talk a lot about, especially when it comes to the holidays, is choosing your battles. And so I think when it comes to politics, it's so interesting to see how people will choose their battles because it depends. There's so many factors. Like you said, it depends on who's on the other end of it. It depends on if they're willing to listen. It depends on if you're choosing to just be funny and you want to make a quick joke, or if you want to really get into the nitty gritty of it all. It is one of those things where you can prepare only yourself. So I really like that you said that you only have control over yourself because that's all you can do, and then you're just waiting to see what happens on the other side.
Dani (24:11):
Exactly. Exactly. But even that phrasing, pick your battles. I get it. But also it's like I am here to do, if it's new years, I'm just here for sparkles and good times and good music. I am not trying to battle on new years, I want to look cute, go out with people that I love and not worry about a battle coming up. Let's talk about this another time. I'm trying to celebrate,
Demi (24:39):
And that's why I think it's so interesting to see the person that the comment that you brought up earlier where she just said at the end, she says, it used to hurt me a lot that he would rather talk about politics than his own daughter's life or grandchild. She's like, there are some people that we have to interact with. I mean, we don't have to, that we choose to interact with. And if they are just stuck, it's so disheartening.
Dani (25:10):
Yeah, because you have no control of it. What are you going to do? You can keep going over the same politics and politics topics over and over again. But I think here's where the question comes in of when do you cut it off? And I think there's a big divide on the internet right now of should family, family come over politics or what should you do? Because I've seen a lot of posts on my feed of, what is the quote? It's like, what is it? Where it's like they say,
Demi (25:52):
If you voted one way, unfollow me. That one?
Dani (25:55):
That kind of vibe.
Demi (25:55):
Yeah. I've seen a lot of that too, where it's been like, if we don't agree on fundamental rights, just go ahead and unfollow me. Bye. Yeah, and I think that's huge because like you said, the topic of family coming over politics, there's a lot of gray, I think because how do you decide that?
Dani (26:26):
I don't know. I mean, this person on Reddit thinks that it's silly. She says on Reddit, cutting off family members for differing political beliefs seems to be celebrated and applauded. This is sad and crazy to me. Why ditch people who have known you for your entire life? For a politician that barely knows you go ahead and try to call your local politician. They are much less likely to pick up the phone than a family member is. I just don't agree with most of that.
Demi (26:59):
No. And what I really liked was a comment that responded to that and somebody said, if it's specifically for political reasons, many politics involve ethics that may be uncompromising.
Dani (27:14):
Yes.
Demi (27:15):
And I think that for me, sums it up when it comes to, like I was saying earlier, choosing your battles. If some battles involve ethics, to me, there's no battle. There should be no battle. If I have a view of a certain political view, for me, a huge one is bodily autonomy and getting to make decisions on my own body.
Dani (27:45):
you like that? Okay.
Demi (27:45):
So I just feel like how is that even a discussion? How is that even? But what we've learned is it's very much a discussion. Oh my goodness. In this country. And so I think that, I don't know. I don't know. It's very interesting to see how we move forward from here.
Dani (28:10):
And that's where I get stuck. I almost go into in the matrix where all those numbers are just trickling down. My mind just goes to this uncomprehensible place where I'm like, I'm so confused right now how we are even talking about this, when it comes to the whole bodily autonomy thing. I'm just like, I fundamentally can't even empathize with where you're at. I can't even meet you there. I don't understand it. And to me it's like I can't even have that conversation with that person because I don't even know where the argument is there. I can't even argue with you because it's just fact in my mind.
Demi (28:57):
Exactly. And so it ties back to what you said earlier. New Year's is not the time for us to bring this up. No, I'm not hanging out with you on New Year's. No, no. I'm trying to live my best life. And if that means not seeing you, then that means not seeing you. Bye. Yeah. I know there's a lot of people, clearly we've read the stories. There's a lot of people who don't agree with us and will think, well, my family has been there forever and my family will always be there. And although I can understand that mindset for certain people, I think it completely erases the communities that don't have that privilege.
Dani (29:42):
Exactly. I think the most straight to the 0.1 that I just love is not just because you share genetics doesn't mean you owe them a relationship. Yes, yes. To me, this just screams the need for chosen family. And I think about my experience in being queer. Just because you're my blood relative doesn't mean that I owe you anything.
Demi (30:09):
No, because if you go back to what they said, your local politician is less likely to pick up the phone than a family member is. I don't know how true that is. If I have a family member, for example, you said if you have a family member that does not agree with you, or agree with you being queer, then they won't pick up the phone. They're not picking up that phone. As a brown woman, I need to surround myself with women I'm going to feel safe with.
Dani (30:38):
Exactly.
Demi (30:39):
I need to surround myself with family members I need to feel safe with because if I don't, then you don't have someone to turn to when you need to.
Dani (30:48):
Definitely. There's someone who's talking about their bi girlfriend who has a rule for herself. Any family member who would refuse to come to a wedding where I married a woman won't be invited to my wedding if I marry a man. Love that.
Demi (31:03):
I love it. Yeah. That just makes so much sense to me because how are you going to pick and choose parts of me that you love?
Dani (31:16):
Exactly. And I think with some identities that's possible. Right? Absolutely. The being bi is a really great example because who knows who she's going to marry. Sure. And that would be exactly like you said, picking and choosing what identity, but there are some identities that you cannot, this does not apply to. So she's just like, you're either with me or you're not. You can't be with me sometimes. And not other times,
Demi (31:42):
No. Holidays are hard. Holidays are already hard as it is.
Dani (31:48):
Yeah. I told myself this year that I am going to intentionally make choices that will support me in having a chill holiday season.
Demi (32:00):
Me too.
Dani (32:01):
It's been a little tough. I'm not saying there haven't been any disagreements or arguments, but I feel like I'm really setting myself up pretty well and I am happy. I'm proud of myself for that, especially because, like I said, intertwined in this holiday season for me is grief. This is the first holiday season that I'll have without my grandpa. I really need to handle my heart with care in this. Absolutely. I am already sad, I am already sad, and I want to make it as comforting as possible as I can. I feel like you did that this year too.
Demi (32:40):
Yeah. For me, I've been super intentional. I've been working on it a lot in therapy.
Dani (32:44):
Go you.
Demi (32:46):
It's been, for me, a main topic. Even building up to the holidays of how am I going to balance the holidays and still hold my own boundaries and still reinforce. Because boundaries, the holidays are the perfect time for you to start loosening up on your boundaries. It's so easy to just let a little go, let a little thing slide here, say that this time you're okay with this one thing. And then that's true. New year's is done and you're like, oh, all those boundaries I was working really hard on. I kind of let everybody think that we don't need to stick to them.
Dani (33:24):
That is so true. And I feel like for me at least, I will sacrifice a boundary because I want to keep peace because I want to have a good time.
Demi (33:33):
Absolutely.
Dani (33:35):
Absolutely. Great short-term plan, long-term, really not doing anything good for myself.
Demi (33:40):
It's really hard to balance all of that because the thing that, like you were saying, taking care of your heart, the grace that I keep giving myself is something that I told my therapist one day and she said, hold on to that. And was, this is my first time doing this. We give a lot of grace to other people because it's their first time also living life, but also remembering it's your first time living life too. Give yourself the same grace. It's your first. For me, this was my first Thanksgiving doing just something, me and my partner, this was our first year having our own Thanksgiving and balancing the sadness in it with also the excitement of being like, I have to stick to my boundary. I think it's good if we have some space. I think if it's good that, because like you said, you want to feel good, so it was super hard to say no to the invitations that we thought, but also really nice when the day came and we got to just have our piece.
Dani (34:46):
Totally.
Demi (34:46):
And remembering, like you said, in the long term, yes, short term it's super hard, but long term, this will be good for us.
Dani (34:53):
Totally. And I think what came up for me, as you were saying that is this idea of flexibility during the holidays. There's something that just doesn't align there for people. And I love tradition. I love family tradition. I think that's important, but also it's like, what if I just want to try it out? It's just going to be me and my partner this year. I kind of want to do that. There is, at least from the family I come from, there's a lot of tradition. We have the same things for dinner every year, which again, that's cool. But why can't we be flexible there? Because what if I want to go travel one year, I would have to do some work so that I don't feel guilt or shame of, ah, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. I mean, I feel like there was an understanding specifically for Thanksgiving. I went to school out of state and because of flight tickets and pricing, things like that, I wouldn't, for four years I didn't come back for Thanksgiving. And that was completely acceptable. Everybody was sad, but my family, I felt was understanding because I had a reason. It's like, what if I don't have a reason and I just want to do this? You're describing a really nice day that you just had with your partner. Cool. I'm glad you had that. I missed you, but it sounds like you had a good time.
Demi (36:18):
Yeah, and especially with family, that flexibility always has to come with a reason. The flexibility will be given to you. This shall be granted. Shall I grant you flexibility or not? If you give me a good enough reason for me to then forgive you, that's the hidden conversation. Yes, agreed. That's happening. And so it's like when it comes back to holding your boundaries, if you're telling your family, we're not talking about politics. Politics is a no go topic, and they choose to stay in their ways because your boundary is something that you uphold, not something that somebody else upholds, which with me was so hard to learn that I can only control myself and my boundary is me holding it, nobody else. And so if your family says, no, I'm actually going to still talk about this,
Dani (37:16):
You
Demi (37:16):
Have to do that internal work, like you said, to figure out what are you okay with and what are you not okay with,
Dani (37:22):
And what are you going to do if that boundary's crossed. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, to me it feels very person to person, family to family. But I think it's important to have some sort of game plan going in or some tools in your wheelhouse. I think it's hard because we were reading, we were trying to look for advice online, and there's this therapist who says, have a plan in mind, and what else did she say? Have a plan in mind. Remember boundaries control what you can remember. You can always say, no, there's something about that. Part of me fully agrees. Yes. And part of me is like, but is there more?
Demi (38:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we keep saying this whole time is what do you do when this isn't enough? What are the next steps when traditional advice is no longer enough?
Dani (38:24):
Totally. And it's like, I don't know. I did enjoy this, right? I did enjoy, it's called surviving the holidays, a therapist tips on how to better manage holidays with the family. I would tell my clients this too. So there is truth in there, but something about it is, I guess for myself, I have to make it personalized and take it a step further for it to actually apply to me because on a foundational place, I think these are all good tips. But I did find the other article a little bit more helpful. I'm not really sure why.
Demi (39:06):
I'm not sure why either. Because I think, well, this is kind of my theory on why, because like you said, this is something that you would even tell your clients. This is all stuff my therapist has told me.
Dani (39:19):
I tell myself this said, boundaries have a plan. I literally just said, have a plan.
Demi (39:24):
Yeah. This is the foundation. So I think, I don't want to say scary, that's not scary, but the hard part, or the work of therapy we were talking about before we started recording the work of therapy is they give you the foundation. Now you have to take it and do something with it.
Dani (39:43):
I don't want to,
Demi (39:46):
So for me, I felt like my first year now I've been with this specific therapist a year and a half now. The first year of therapy was just me figuring out what do I want my life to look like? And then the second half has been putting it into practice.
Dani (40:04):
Yikes.
Demi (40:04):
And so it's, I think that's why it feels like this isn't enough, because when you've done the work and when you've been figuring things out, when you're have a list of acceptable topic conversations or conversation topics, then you're like, okay, yeah, I have that list now what?
Dani (40:24):
That is true. And so I'm just reading this article. I mean, I already know this, but girl, are you doing it though? Yeah. The answer is sometimes. Sometimes. And that's the real answer for sure. Yeah. Looking at this next article, I did feel like maybe it's a little more specific. What was the title of it again?
Demi (40:45):
10 Ways to Cope With Difficult Relatives During the Holidays.
Dani (40:49):
Yeah, first one that really speaks to you. What is it?
Demi (40:54):
Ooh, for me, have realistic expectations. That one for me, maybe because it's something that I am actively working on in therapy with my family, is having realistic expectations. So there was a section that said, not expecting people to change when they have behaved in the same way for years. Try to keep perspective and maintain some emotional distance. So something that my therapist will say on top of that is because then it also helps minimizing the disappointment. For me, that's been vital because it is learning how to love and accept my family as they are, and giving myself, I feel like that helps give myself my power and my boundaries again, because it goes, I feel like that helps me tie into my boundaries because then it's like, okay, well if I'm the only one that can control my boundaries, if somebody has a history of acting a certain type of way, and then they're acting that way in the moment, I'm not caught off guard. So I have the strength to further uphold my boundaries.
Dani (42:09):
Totally. You were like, okay, I prepared for this. I knew this was likely going to happen. Exactly. And I'm still going to hold, I'm holding this stance.
Dani (42:17):
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I really liked have realistic expectations. It says, it would be nice if your difficult answer, uncle didn't criticize your outfit at the family dinner this year, but don't count on it. I'm like, yes, true. There are some people that you can just anticipate what they're going to do. I hope that they change, and I would love to be surprised, but my history with them says they're probably going to do this thing that I don't like.
Demi (42:43):
Exactly.
Dani (42:45):
This one, I mean, we kind of talked about this earlier, except that the only thing you control is, I love that you can't stop people from bringing up controversial topics or asking rude questions, but you can monitor and modify your own reactions. Love, yes. Upset.
Demi (43:07):
I think so. Yeah. That one, I don't know why this one feels so much more in depth, like we were saying. Right. I don't know if it's because of the quotes. I don't know if it's because it has palpable examples that maybe it's like, oh, because like you said, with that one, knowing you can't stop people from bringing up the controversial subjects, you know, have that one Tia or Tio, that regardless of what anyone says is that loves to get the reactions
Dani (43:38):
That is true.
Demi (43:39):
That loves to bring something up.
Dani (43:41):
Agreed.
Demi (43:42):
Then it's like you can put this into practice because you can see your family in it.
Dani (43:47):
Exactly. You know what it makes me think of as I'm getting older, I have a niece, she's pretty young. What kind of Thea do I want to be seen as? I want to be seen as the Thea. That's not going to let somebody be disrespected. That's what I want. I'm not going to tolerate certain things so that she knows that I'm that person that she can go to. That is the hope. I can tell her all I want. Hey, I'm here for you. I want to make sure you're respected. But if I actually show her that, I hope that it lands differently.
Demi (44:24):
Yeah. Because it will not only show her that if she's being disrespected, she can come to you, but she'll see it being put into practice and seeing an example of somebody standing up for themselves allows you to feel like you can do it too. Especially since you do it in the family environment. So then she's going to be able to say like, Hey, Thea sticks up to this family member. I can also stick up to the family member if they're being disrespectful.
Dani (44:51):
Totally. I bought a bike in the summer. It's been a lot of fun. But at the same time, my niece just learned how to ride a bike without training wheels. So I have been telling her, let's go on a bike ride together. And there was a point, we were maybe a block away from her house. There was a point where she says that her legs hurting, she wants to go home. No. She said her legs hurting. And I said, okay, I don't want you to be in pain. Do you want to go home?
Dani (45:22):
And she said, yes. And so I want her to know that when she says she wants to do go home, I'm going to take her there. But then we get home. I think she was maybe just anxious, and then she was like, I didn't want to come home. And I told her, I just want you to know that when you tell me something, I'm going to believe you. I'm going to listen to you. So I was kind of, I guess surprised when she was like, well, I didn't actually want this, but I want that experience to be kind of an example, a lived example that when you say something, I'm going to believe you. And the same for holidays or just in general. When you're in my presence, I want to protect you. That's the kind of the that I want be.
Demi (46:06):
Yeah. And by having it not just be big examples, seeing it in everyday life, day-to-day instances, just that's something that she's going to hold with her forever. I
Dani (46:21):
Hope so. I don't know. She's the first little one in our family, so I'm just like, I hope that this is making a difference.
Demi (46:28):
And as she gets older, I think opening up the environment for her to give feedback, which I hope she has no problem doing, I think will also help everyone learn. Totally. And you guys will just keep learning together
Dani (46:44):
Completely. I want to finish on this last one. That is one of my favorites and I like to do this holidays or not. I find if I am in an environment where maybe I feel uncomfortable, it says, bring a happy reminder, smiling at a favorite photo, funny text from a friend can help reduce stress that's crossed out. So I dunno what that says. So my question for you is, if you're going into a situation that you know might feel disrespected or boundaries crossed, what are you bringing with you?
Demi (47:24):
Mine is a picture of my dog and my partner.
Dani (47:27):
Okay.
Demi (47:27):
So I
Dani (47:28):
Haven't accessible on your phone.
Demi (47:29):
Yep. It's my home screen. As somebody as your friendly neighborhood, HR representative, I always say it's something that's appropriate. People love talking about dogs. Is this true? It's an ice breaker. It's a stress breaker for myself. So for me, that checks up all of my boxes.
Dani (47:50):
Someone's just like bodily autonomy. I don't know. Have you seen my dog? Got it. So this is something that you have on you that you use for yourself, but also would be a good segue. Oh, look, my
Demi (48:05):
Screensaver. Absolutely. There have been times where I've clicked my phone just to check the time and the person will be like, oh my God, is that a picture of your dog? And I'll be like, oh yeah, it is. I've had supervisors be like, can I see it? You sure can. Everybody loves the dog. This
Dani (48:24):
Is true. It just lightens the mood a bit and helps you.
Demi (48:27):
And it helps
Dani (48:28):
Me. You feel lighter?
Demi (48:28):
Yeah. Yeah. I can talk about my dog for days. You can. I mean, he is very cute.
Dani (48:35):
I actually told you
Dani (48:35):
You could bring him.
Demi (48:36):
We debated
Dani (48:37):
Bringing him today too, but he was so sleepy. Okay, well let him rest. For me, I love this. I feel like there's a lot to play around here with sort of the senses. Something that I find really just sweet is if I'm going to go somewhere without my partner, I know it might be stressful like spraying her perfume or something, and I can just smell her essence. To me, I'm like, it's a, what is it? Endorphin release? No, olfactory reminder. You're like, what? I don't know that. I don't know. It's a smell reminder of her. We don't need a big word for that. It's one of your five senses. It's a sense, yes. Back to the basics. Yours is visual, like a smell or something that I've done before too, is wearing one of her shirts. I feel like sort of wrapped in protection or something. I know I can feel it on my body. I really like those kinds of things.
Demi (49:48):
I've done that too. I've worn my partner a sweater to think especially, especially if it's a family activity that's going to be outdoors. I need one of your sweaters. Sorry, I need it. And then you don't give it back. Exactly. Good for you.
Dani (50:00):
So, Then once we moved in together, he got half of his wardrobe back, but then you also had access to the other half. Yeah. So it was a win-win in my eyes. All right, cool. I love that. Well, as always, this has been fun. I'm glad we did this. I'm not sure what we're going to be feeling in January. I anticipate fear or tummy troubles. That's what I think might be in my future. So I'm glad that we got to debrief a little bit about politics, knowing we're going into the holidays into what it called the New Year inauguration.
(50:46):
Yikes. But thanks for coming on the podcast. Yeah, thanks for having me always. Until next time, thank you so much for listening to this episode, and thank you again to Demi Rodriguez. Always love having her on the podcast. Please check in the detail section of this episode where we are going to link the articles that we talked about. So hopefully that can help you to feel a little bit more resourced as you navigate your holidays and decide what is best for you. Thank you so much, and we'll see you next time when we're out of session.
Dani Marrufo is Latinx, lesbian woman who is passionate about supporting Latinx, BIPOC, and LGBTQIA+ folks. She is constantly navigating the intersections of my queer identity & religion/spirituality and very excited about helping poly and queer-identified partners to feel more secure in their relationships, communicate effectively and compassionately, and bridge any relevant cultural differences to have increased curiosity and enjoyment in their partnership.
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